Ask PG: Does smoking marijuana affect the ability to hack and run a startup?

[snoop_a_loop]

Throw away account. I have a startup in San Francisco, and smoking weed actually is quite therapeutic. It is an outlet for stress and the never-ending wall of burden. Development and startups are evolving so fast, and it often feels like you are never adequate. You always need to be learning and using X new language or technology. My startup is the hardest thing I've done so far in my life.

The culture of San Francisco also is heavily accepting, even promoting of smoking marijuana. Often times it feels like some of the best hackers I know smoke on a regular basis.

However, there are noticeable side-effects. Some short term memory loss, sometimes I find it difficult to stay focused, on-task, and motivated. On the flip side, I do some of my best hacking high. I'm able to focus on a single problem; become tunnel vision. Problems just become simpler.

Thoughts? Can, and should a startup founder, as a leader, and public face of a company smoke? Can you be an amazing hacker smoking consistently?

[brc]

Smoke weed if you like but don't kid yourself it's making you better at your work, ezpecially if you do it regularly. If you need stress relief, get good rest and exercise.

I've seen several promising friends fizzle and burn out because they started needing to have a smoke for breakfast. Just keep it to the occasional party and try to phase it out completely as you continue the process of growing up.

[pokesmot]

"The only pot smokers I know and am aware of are burnt out, so they all will burn out! Oh and it's immature, whatever that means."

Sorry for the snark, but when there's clearly a visibility problem, these one-off negative anecdotes given as universal observations and advice are nearly useless.

[gexla]

This seems like a silly question to be aimed at PG. Why would he have any special insight on this?

> Development and startups are evolving so fast, and it often feels like you are never adequate. You always need to be learning and using X new language or technology. My startup is the hardest thing I've done so far in my life.

Always X is always wrong. There are always exceptions. Often, your always is the exception rather than the norm. As I look the tools people are using today, I feel like we have barely moved. Developers are using the same tools, they have just got a little heavier.

The founders would rightfully be stressed, but isn't it their jobs to protect developers from all that so they can focus on their jobs? Again, I would think that high stress would be the exception rather than the norm for anyone not actually running the company. Why should you be stressed if you don't own the company? The unemployment rate for developers is low enough that you can just get another job if the company fails. Right? That's not to say you shouldn't be packing a mighty can of whoop-ass in the name of your company, but you don't need to kill yourself either.

> However, there are noticeable side-effects. Some short term memory loss, sometimes I find it difficult to stay focused, on-task, and motivated. On the flip side, I do some of my best hacking high. I'm able to focus on a single problem; become tunnel vision. Problems just become simpler.

A lack of focus is a side effect of some of the worst blockers of productivity. That includes lack of sleep, drinking alcohol (and the hangover after,) being sick and burned out. This would overrule any perceived gains for me. Does it matter that you are able to do better hacking after smoking weed? What are you working on? Slow and steady is generally a winning strategy as long as you are shipping. Sometimes you have to put in relatively heavy hours to accelerate this, but you get there eventually. It doesn't have to be a work of art, it doesn't have to be brilliant, just ship the dang thing and move on.

[bdcravens]

This seems like a silly question to be aimed at PG. Why would he have any special insight on this?

PG doesn't shy away from identifying characteristics of founders/YC alums.

[zacinbusiness]

"...packing a mighty can of whoop-ass in the name of your company..."

Dude, that's awesome++

[priyadarshy]

OP, I don't mean this to be negative or mean but I'll say it because I'd want someone to say it to me.

You need to look inside yourself and decide what is right for you and your circumstance. Certainly you cannot expect PG to issue an edict down from the clouds. You are pandering to your role model/idol/God figure to approve a behavior whose merits you haven't decided for yourself.

Furthermore, it is a fact that PG is infinitely wise when it comes to succeeding in startups but as a community of people that look up to him for his advice and indirect mentorship I'd rather we not request his 'judgement' on matters like this because of the disproportionate weight his words carry.

[bdcravens]

Development and startups are evolving so fast, and it often feels like you are never adequate. You always need to be learning and using X new language or technology.

I think this is a myth. Yes, there's a romanticism of the culture of being cutting edge. Truthfully, those that ship well, and actually turn profits for founders, are most often running on 15+ year old languages.

[JohnBooty]

Pot should be recreational, not something you need.

  It is an outlet for stress and the never-ending wall 
  of burden. Development and startups are evolving so 
  fast, and it often feels like you are never adequate. 
  You always need to be learning and using X new language 
  or technology.

I ran my own tiny business for a while and the "always on" syndrome was definitely the toughest aspect. Felt like I should always be doing something... 24/7/365.

It was very tough to disconnect my mind from work. It was exhausting and very tough on my personal relationships! I feel you there.

Thing is, pot is only ever (at best) treating your symptoms. It's not fixing any of the root causes of those symptoms, the things that are making you feel like you need to be always on.

1. Exercise, a good diet, and sleep may seem boring as hell but those are really how you strengthen your mind and body to deal with stress.

2. Also don't forget to feed your soul. Meditation, prayer, whatever works for you. I'm an atheist and there are lots of ways to meditate that don't involve believing in the supernatural.

3. Adding some structure may help with the "always on" angst. Make Wednesday afternoons or Sunday mornings (or whatever) the time when you play with new languages, so you don't feel like you have to be doing it 24/7.

4. Have a good note-taking system (moleskine, note app, whatever) so that you can record thoughts and to-dos, rather than having 50 things bouncing around in your head that feel like they need to be acted upon immediately lest you forget them. "Getting Things Done" is big on this; it's worth at least skimming that book for ideas because even if you don't adopt the whole system there is some seriously good shit in there you can poach.

[tlb]

As a hacker you can probably get away with it. If you're a 10x hacker, maybe you'll be an 8x hacker that's less stressed and more happy. Depending on how you handle stress, maybe you'll be more effective overall. It's a tradeoff you can make with yourself. (Be sure to stay legal and get a prescription.)

While you're leading a company, don't. Being a good leader requires a great memory. If you forget half of what was said on Fridays because you smoked that night, you're hosing everyone.

[pvnick]

While Steve Jobs is an entrepreneurial outlier, and I recommend against smoking weed often simply because it can be a crutch for psychological issues, Jobs had an interesting history of LSD and cannabis use: "The best way I could describe the effect of the marijuana and hashish is that it would make me relaxed and creative" [1]. And then went on to found what became the most valuable company on the planet.

[1] http://archive.is/20120916001237/http://www.smh.com.au/techn...

[wturner]

I've seen a lot of articles stating that when you're tired the mind is more 'creative' irrespective of drug use. If pot can be used as a responsible tool for 'creativity' its one thing, but I've had childhood friends that have smoked heavily since they were young and are literally in a permanent state of arrested intellectual development.

[Alex3917]

Rather than posting this as an 'Ask PG', why don't you actually go read some books on the topic? This reminds me of Randy Cohen talking about all the people who email him asking for permission to do blatantly unethical stuff.

[larrys]

What would be interesting is if one of those link bait psuedo tech publications decided to use the, um, Betteridge-esq headline and actually do that research which you suggest.

Seems as if that would collect a bit of attention. And if the publication then issued a press release (if they actually did their own research and/or surveys) the mainstream press would pick up on it.

[pbhjpbhj]

Probably because that route won't provide insight as to PG's thoughts on the matter?

[kranner]

If anything affected my short term memory adversely, I wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole.

[snoop_a_loop]

Do you drink alcohol?

[thenerdfiles]

Poor sleep quality affects short-term memory.

[dasht]

I think it is still taboo among most VC's and angels. Founders are supposed to be cookie-cutter stereotypes who fit a pre-established program. Your personality / public face can be "challenging" but not challenging, if you know what I mean.

[snoop_a_loop]

Everybody accepts drinking coffee or caffeine, but its clearly "performance" improving. There is even a culture of providing adderall to employees if they want. Do investors frown upon those activities?

[larrys]

"smoking weed actually is quite therapeutic. It is an outlet for stress and the never-ending wall of burden. Development and startups are evolving so fast, and it often feels like you are never adequate."

My advice? I will fall back on the saying "if you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen".

There are many reasons why someone might have to medicate themselves if they have a situation that is not under their control (family problems, health as only two). And I"m not saying that someone should medicate themselves in those situations but just that it's more understandable when you have to deal with some external things that you have little or no control over. But with respect to "getting ahead" if you can't take the pressure, and you need to medicate, you should seriously consider setting your goals a bit lower. To me if you are thinking of this as a "never-ending wall of burden" then you have not chosen the correct career path.

Of course others may disagree and feel differently but I've seen to many people reach for the brass ring and as a result of pressure which they can't handle fall into some dependency or behavioral problem as a result of that dependency.

[Valid]

I have to say, the idea of lowering my goals in light of increasing stress haunts me at night. It would be so easy (or at least it feels that way now) to just stop being ambitious and stop chasing the dream, as stress levels increase along with risks. I just can't do it. Even though it's intensely stressful at times, I think that striving for a grand goal is a part of who I am, in much the same way that my personal stress tolerance is. If I was going to change anything, it would be to reduce my stress through any other means than to stop trying to achieve more than I am physical capable. I take nootropics, stimulants (light ones, these days, though I had previously been on much stronger ones) for cognitive/performance enhancement so I can excel further than I would be able without them. I could have removed the need for them, but that, to me, is a far worse fate.

Just my thoughts.

[throwaway10]

At the risk of enabling some questionable behavior (i.e. asking people on the internet for advice regarding something so controversial), I would say don't do it. It will probably save you trouble, and thereby save me trouble as well. Note that I have not addressed whether anyone has a reason to listen to me in particular on this topic.

[leeoniya]

i cannot get anything done after smoking except for couching, lazy remote operation, eating and sleeping. if i have anything to get done (which is 99% of the time), i don't smoke. my buddy, however, smokes whenever he's awake and is the most productive/brilliant engineer i've ever met, i don't get it.

[kordless]

You may want to try a couple of varieties of pure Sativa. You may be one of those people that is sensitive to the CBDs in weed. Higher concentrations can make you sleepy.

[busterarm]

Right. The negative stereotypes associated with a smoker's lifestyle aren't exactly unwarranted. Once OP associates with something so polarizing, it's much harder to control the public's perception of you and your company.

[pokesmot]

For me, it's a happy in between. Come home from work, have a bag from the vaporizer and write a bunch of code for my side project. Though, Friday, when everyone else goes out to the bar, I stay in have several bags, watch some stupid TV and fall asleep early on the couch. Works for me, but I also know how to not overdo it, etc. It's honestly a lot like alcohol in that regard.

Can you imagine how weird it would be if people freaked out if they heard you had a beer at lunch or had a beer at 4PM while working from home? Weird to me at least...

[stirno]

Obviously not PG, but I do have an opinion so here we go.. ;)

It entirely depends on the image you're looking to present for yourself. If you are comfortable with being a smoker and people judging you and your company by that, then by all means continue.

There are some that will judge you poorly in any circle but a majority likely will not care.

My only advice is don't look to others/the culture to justify a behavior. In the end it has to be your decision and you have to own it. I think most people would be surprised by the number of their peers who have made this choice.

[orasis]

Your crutch is not an asset.

[bdcravens]

Ditto on reliance on caffeine.

[chatmasta]

If you think it helps you, do it. As a startup founder, you should have enough critical thinking ability and confidence in yourself to know what works for you and what does not. However, I see no reason to be open about it, especially to investors. No investor is going to say "he smokes weed, therefore his company has a higher chance of being successful."

So smoke if you want to, but keep your mouth shut when talking to people with money.

This is a pretty good life rule.

[PavlovsCat]

When I was 17, after a good night's sleep and a good breakfast, I smoked two bowls and then went to do an intelligence test (a real one with supervision, which took several hours to do).. scored 142 out of 145 possible for that test, during which I finished a set of 50 logic puzzles which wasn't really intended to be finished (the idea was how far you get in 5 minutes). I never dared to take another test since then, there is no way that is my actual IQ; I had a good day and was "in the zone".

But I also tried to smoke continuously, and that did not work out well for me. I think it's like a glass of wine can be nice, but being tipsy all the time is not, not to mention being really drunk. I would say, don't spoil this wonderful plant for yourself by abusing it (not to mention the temporary damage you can do to yourself with it). I think it was George Carlin who said he writes his material sober, but then smokes a joint to make the finishing touches. I can see how that makes sense, but I don't know how much it applies to programming. This is for you to find out, carefully.

[lfounder]

I'm a founder of a well-funded venture-backed startup. I wear many hats: product manager, coder and growth hacker to name a few. I smoke weed every day, sometimes multiple times per day. I have a few observations about working while smoking.

I cannot and do not smoke when I need to interact with my employees, investors or partners as I find it very hard to be at my sharpest wit verbally. So when my schedule calls for that, I skip.

However, there are many other times when I find my smoking to be a secret weapon: 1) There is zero question that I'm at my most creative when smoking. Sometimes a solution to a product or marketing challenge seems hopeless. In that instance, a smoke seems to unfog the mind and ideas that I never had sober just jump into my head. Good ideas. Ideas so good that if anyone around me knew how I came up with them, they'd probably be shocked. 2) Coding - A smoke will focus me for hours on coding. Sometimes I have a smoke, start coding and what feels like a blink of the eye is 3 hours of the most productive coding I'll have all day. It's false to think that the code is of poor quality, quite the opposite. I find that the mental model sustained in my head while coding becomes even more clear - it's like instead of just visualizing the model, it's like I'm inside it.

Some commentors have complained that they become lethargic or foggy. I'm sure that individuals react differently, but what I've found is that Indica strains should be avoided - they tend to have that effect on almost anyone. But a high-quality Sativa makes me alert, creative and highly motivated.

Look, everyone is different. What works for me may not work for you. But I wouldn't shy away from it if you think it helps you. Just keep it to yourself and those that you trust and let everyone else judge you by your results.

[snoop_a_loop]

Thanks, great reply.

[blunt_dev]

(throwaway)

Hi. I'm a software developer that smokes multiple times daily even as I work (remotely).

Started smoking weed semi-regularly when I was 15. It helps me get over certain anxiety issues. Never really kicked the habit, but I never really felt like I wanted to except to pass a drug test.

It was a little harder to find a job after college. I have quit for small periods of time while looking for a job. But my clients and I are happy. Isn't that what really matters?

On being a public face: Are you setting up your company's culture and image? It's up to you to decide if the risk of fallout is greater than smoking your nugs IF the public finds out.

On being an amazing hacker: Maybe. I'm not old enough to have put in my ten years or 10k hours for 'expert' status as a software engineer yet. I do not consider myself to be a 10x (engineer), but I'm definitely not a 1x either.

Background: B.S. in EE/CmpE, software engineer (Rails primarily right now) and sysadmin

[void0]

I smoke every day medically as it helps with managing the daily nausea, vomiting, and cramping pain that my IBS presents me. I am very young for most software engineers in my field, and I work at a startup that was recently funded. Before I started smoking daily, I was missing loads of work because of pain. Now, I wake up early every morning to smoke so that I can actually function. Marijuana has not improved my skills as a hacker, but it has enabled me to spend more of my life doing what I'd like to be (programming) instead of dealing with a disease. I can vouch for the therapeutic effects of the drug too, and I know that for some people it is what they need to get things done. In moderate amounts, I don't know how it is fair to say that drugs like Prozac and Riddlin are acceptable for the workplace any more than pot.