Ask HN: If you were 20 again, what country would you choose?

[xtester]

I'm curious, if you were 20 again and could choose any country on earth to start from scratch, what country would you choose thinking it would best enable you to build an "empire" for the next 10 generations after you?

As people from different countries and backgrounds will try to answer this question, I would really appreciate a detailed answer as to why you pick any country. The goal here is to find out more about how people see things and find out often missed or unknown facts about the great countries of the world. I'm especially curious about some contrarian views. Another way to put it would be, what countries do best satisfy the criteria below, but are not so heavily marketed and kept under the radar?

I think these would be the most important factors I would take into account:

   - Friendliness toward entrepreneurship/businesses/startups
   - Serious intellectual life
   - Good education system
   - Good healthcare system
   - Good quality of life
   - Beautiful landscapes

Please also see the list below before you answer:

   - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where-to-be-born_Index
   - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_most_liveable_cities
   - http://www.economist.com/news/21566430-where-be-born-2013-lottery-life

[Someone1234]

Likely within the "Europe" (particularly the UK) but maybe Canada.

As a small time employer they take a lot of the employees issues out of your hands and place it in the hands of the state (which is GOOD because now I won't need a HR person, insurance specialist, and so on).

For example, health insurance: not the employer's problem, long term/short term disability: not the employer's problem, holiday ("vacation") time/sick leave/maternity/paternity: already defined by law (which is GOOD, since now no drama) and often times the employee is compensated from the state (e.g. maternity leave).

In the US it is incredibly uncompetitive between small and large businesses. Small businesses just cannot offer the same perks and pay (they literally pay more for the perks too), and that means you cannot hire the best.

While small time employers in europe may not be able to match pay like for like, they can almost always match "benefits." Plus the work life balance remains real so people with families can continue to remain competitive.

The only real way to even do a startup now in the US is via huge investment from a VC (just to pick up the employee pay packet). True "basement startups" are all but dead, which definitely isn't the case in much of Europe (particularly in several minority communities which are flourishing).

That all being said, if I wanted to open a "programmer sweatshop" I'd definitely do it in the US or China. Just pay new grads slightly above the minimum wage, offer no benefits, and rake in all the profits yourself -- the US allows that easily both due to the law (or lack of) and because much of the US populace feel that people exploited "deserve" it (e.g. Walmart workers) for being "lazy." You'd be a "local business hero" as opposed to Europe where you'd be hated pretty universally.

[joeclark77]

That's like boarding the Titanic when it's already sinking. Europe won't even exist in 50 years. The demographics are brutal and inevitable: young Europeans are not marrying, or marrying late, not having children, or having only one or two children, and having them late. They're rapidly being replaced by immigrants who have no interest in assimilating to the culture or adopting the language, but are having lots of children. You will still be able to find France or Germany on a map 50 years from now, but their cultures will be long gone.

[userulluipeste]

The UK's problem is the banking system. They try to be "your partners" (to put it mildly) whether you wish it or not.

[GoldenMonkey]

And how many programmer sweatshops are there in the US? Just because you can legally pay above minimum wage, and not pay benefits, doesn't mean you'll get programmers. Businesses offer higher wages and benefits because they need to compete with other businesses to attract workers.

You don't see the contradiction here? The US is a huge investment, but you can open a 'programmer sweatshop'?

The US creates 500,000 startups a month, across every industry; there are basement startups everywhere.

[hpenedones]

Switzerland definitely ranks very high in all your factors. It's one of the safest countries for investors, has a growing startup scene, has two of the top engineering schools in Europe/World (ETHZ, Zurich and EPFL, Lausanne), has the highest rate of Nobel prizes per capita, very solid educational and healthcare systems, amazing quality of life (Zurich, Geneva, etc, often rank as the top cities in the world), and last but not least: you have amazing lakes and mountains everywhere!

[xtester]

Agree, Switzerland seems definitely one of the top countries in the world which keeps itself intentionally under the radar. As Taleb put it, in addition to all the obvious benefits, Switzerland seems to be an antifragile country.

In any case, as far as I know Switzerland makes it pretty hard for people to immigrate there. Do you happen to live there? What would you say would be the most effective way to immigrate there?

[zura]

If only it was cheap and it had a sun... :)

[lacker]

The USA. It worked great the first time I went through my 20's. Why switch?

[userulluipeste]

One of the USA's problems is the education system (and I'm not talking about its quality here). If you thing in the long term, counting in your future kids' education, you may wish to reconsider USA altogether.

Another problem is the healthcare system and the chances of one to actually afford it when the time comes - HN had a few good articles about the subject.

And there may be other somewhat lesser problems too.

[atmosx]

The best city in the world, as life quality goes, is Vienna.

That said, Vienna requires you to have good education and money to enjoy the city, more than (almost) any other city. I don't know nothing about the Austrian healthcare system though.

Copenhagen is a good choice for sure. Norway and Sweden are extremely well suited when it comes to education and healthcare but the weather might get you depressed in the long run.

I would also have a look at Tallin (Estonia) given it's drive for technology, might be a future technology hub (Something like Tel-Aviv with less cultural restrictions).

First choice is Vienna though.

[userulluipeste]

The Europe, maybe somewhere in the south if you care about the weather. Turkey may be a good geographical choice if you won't mind living in a (predominantly) Muslim country. If however, you choose "to breathe tech", then Germany is the most suited place, although having attached the package of a little bit more expensive life compared other eastern/south-eastern and even southern alternatives.

The top 9 cities (plus a few capitals as Sydney or Paris) from the referenced Wikipedia article are good, but expensive places to live in.

[epynonymous]

my vote would be japan, i lived there for a year when i was 28, i thought tokyo was an international city so i could get away with english and slowly learn the language, but not quite. if i was 20 again, i'd have the patience to learn the language. not sure about the startup scene, but the infrastructure was amazing (fiber to the home in 2007, dedicated 100 Mbps), and let's not forget ruby and tokyo cabinet founders. scenery awesome, the attention to detail and hardworking nature of the people are amazing.

[anonbanker]

Beijing or Calgary.

[jensv]

Care to elaborate?