Ask HN: Got hired for a position that doesn't exist. How do I leave?

[please_help]

I'm a recent CS graduate from a decent university in the US. It's no CS powerhouse but it's well respected and decently known. I won't name which because I don't want my co-workers to accidentally see this and identify me.

During my last semester we had a guest lecturer in my parallel programming class. He came from a local startup which supposedly created advanced systems to assist the work of other statups.

The engineer from the startup went on and on about how each day there is a challenge and you learn so much. I decided to apply and see what would come out of it.

I went through a very tough series a interviews complete with Python puzzles and whiteboard problems. During these interviews I was reassured the job there was challenging and rewarding. I got a (generous) offer and accepted.

Fast forward to my first day and I ask my team lead what's the project I'll work on and I quickly learn that the challenging work is done in a sister office. I get told that this location mostly does very simple client facing Java Swing applications. I was devastated and almost quit on the spot. I would have if not for the fact that I have very large student debts and can't afford to not work.

Now I've been working there for a month and I've tried everything to get assigned interesting work. It's pretty much impossible since no such work is even done at my location.

How do I get myself out of this? I'm looking for other jobs already. I could omit ‎my current position from my resume but then I'll be forced to reveal it if I get an interviews during regular office hours.

I have a friend who wants to personally refer me to work on his team at Amazon but I don't want to blow the interview. I would practice but at the end of the day I'm so burnt out from boredom and repetitive work that I can barely stay awake.

I know there are no clear cut solutions but I'm interested in hearing from people who had similar experiences.

[bstar77]

I consistently deal with this as do many of my coworkers. Here's some suggestions:

- Take care of your immediate responsibilities first (rent, food, loan payments, etc)- this is non-negotiable unless you have a golden parachute (i.e. mom & dad). It's quite honorable to work for survival.

- Always keep an eye out for a better job, the more interviews you go on the easier they will be. Never be satisfied where you are if personal growth is important to you.

- NEVER expect to just be given the most interesting work out of the gate at a new job. That's not the way it works. You generally have to prove yourself. If they are not delivering on a promise that may be a separate concern, but I'd be skeptical of a job that would give a rookie dev the "interesting" work (which is usually the architecture work).

- Identify problems at work and solve them in your free time, then present them to the appropriate people; that is the best way to fast track your own interesting work. Note the politics of your company and be sure to not step on any toes.

- Most importantly, do your own interesting work on the side. Start a company, create/contribute/maintain an open source project. I can't stress enough the incredible opportunities that exist for skilled developers that have some initiative.

- Get in a good routine that works to accomplish your short and long term goals, it's unusual for a job to satisfy that entirely.

[jonnathanson]

Great advice all around. I'd also add to this an important, but somehow occasionally controversial piece of advice: don't just quit the job. Yes, it's not ideal to be looking around for another job after only having been there for a month or two. But that's a lot better than looking for a job as an unemployed person. A lot of companies——certainly not all, but many——attach a deep stigma to unemployed job seekers.

I've been in your position before. Well, sort of. At the time, I hated seeking advice and getting responses along the lines of, "Well, that sucks. But just make the most of it." But there's really something to that advice. Make the most of it, and in the meantime, conduct a job search.

The good news is that you're an engineer! I cannot possibly overstate what an advantageous position that puts you in with respect to 99.99% of job seekers on the market. If you were anything else——a salesperson, a marketer, a corporate strategist, or what have you——your situation would be a lot thornier than it is. At least take some solace in that your line of work is in high demand.

[ramblerman]

> It's quite honorable to work for survival.

What does that even mean? It's necessary sure, it can also be a smart strategy, but honorable? You don't owe them anything and staying for 'honor' is foolish imo.

[scalesolved]

Two issues: You are new to the job, in your first month and you are already pushing for all the interesting stuff. Welcome to the world of commercial programming! Sometimes it sucks but also sometimes knuckling down and getting stuff done will either a) get them to put you onto much harder/interesting projects as you are easily capable with the easy stuff you've been knocking out. b) Getting the easy stuff out of the way means you can then spend time tinkering on algorithms or reading online to further your knowledge.

At the end of the day you have money and time on your side, I was once in a similar position and I cut back on everything social to optimise my time away from work to find a job that I really enjoyed. Good luck but try not to moan too much, even 6 months there will help dividends with finding future work. (No one wants someone that is gonna quit immediately because they don't get what they want to do all the time).

[please_help]

Thanks for your comment. I couldn't expand too much with the allotted 2000 characters but the thing is that I can't really get transferred to the other projects.

The interesting work is done in an office on the opposite coast and I can't move for family reasons.

I understand I might sound difficult but what really got me down is that the interviewer pretty much flat out told me "You will not do CRUD. Brush up on your algorithms!".

Anyway thanks again for the comment it's nice to know people were in similar situations and got themselves out of it.

[eddieroger]

This is right on with what I was thinking, but I'd add that it's the recruiter's job to make the company sound so appealing that new recruits want to work there, but they aren't the ones driving work assignments. Not only is it acceptable to ask what you're going to be doing, it's encouraged. They may have well known you'll be doing Java stuff at first, but still flashed the lights in your eyes. Chalk it up to a learning experience.

[coreymaass]

In my first job out of college, I had maybe 2 hours of work per day. In the first year I was there I produced 2 albums, ran a monthly party, learned a new programming language and launched my first web app.

Ay my first year review, my boss called me out on it, and I said, "am I getting my work done?" He couldn't deny it.

I continued this for another year. At my second year review, my boss did something I still think is brilliant. He'd been following what I'd been learning, and asked if I couldn't use my new knowledge of building web apps to solve an in-house problem.

I spent the third year working extra hours, building a web app but for the company. Everyone was happy.

I've never been a good employee, so YMMV, but CYA, and let it be their problem. If they fire you, there are always other jobs. You'll get out of debt eventually.

[jvehent]

This is good advice. I went through similar experience in my 2nd and 3rd jobs, where the work of "junior security consultant" was reduced to pushing compliance paperwork. I ended up studying tons of new technologies on my own, and publishing tech articles in local magazines. It helped my resume tremendously when I got out of the consulting business.

[scrumper]

> I would practice but at the end of the day I'm so burnt out from boredom and repetitive work that I can barely stay awake.

Sounds like you were sold a pup, but this is firmly in your hands. You're in a (relatively) fortunate position:

Your daily work is so easy it's actually boring, you say. Plenty of time, then, to try little POCs in other languages, to do some self study on the internet, or to perhaps involve yourself in client-facing meetings or other aspects of the company's work, if that sounds appealing. Use the slack to broaden your skills.

An easy job means you leave on time. Go home, do some exercise, eat a healthy meal, then spend a few hours each evening working on personal projects in a much more exciting stack. Instant energy.

You can spend part of your work day thinking about you side projects as well, maybe researching whatever technique or library you need next (but be careful not to do any actual work - your contract likely forbids this).

And spend some time looking for a new job too of course.

[darkxanthos]

This is the best answer I've read here. I don't think blaming you helps here. I've personally seen things like this happen to me. Sure I've learned more about how to prevent this from happening in the future but it's still very aggravating.

Basically, don't give this job your everything. Do the work that's required of you and like the parent thread says leave yourself a bunch of energy. A technique that's worked out well for myself and other friends in the past is taking the first couple hours of each day to do personal projects and then go into work.

Don't give them the best hours of your day.

[jraines]

I have had a somewhat similar experience, quit after 3 or 4 days, and it has had 0 negative impact on my career. I can't believe the commenters telling you to grind it out -- why would you do that in one of the hottest job markets in this field ever? You owe the company nothing, they misled you. And the commenter saying day after day of boring work isn't enough to burn a person out alone . . . of course it can! I can't stand this meme where every (probably legitimate) problem with one's evaluation/enjoyment of their life can be solved by diet, exercise, and sleep. Don't be afraid to climb past the first few levels of Maslow's pyramid, folks!

[donquichotte]

Get out ASAP. I've been in a similar position for the past 2.5 years: el. eng. MSc from a respected uni and I've been restarting PCs, fixing failing VB6 programs and reading HN. (Although at a decent salary.) Now I've finally been able to muster up the courage to leave here to travel. I'm just afraid that spending so much time in a meaningless dead-end position has ruined my chances to get hired at more interesting an challenging positions.

[ptaipale]

Your next job interviewer is most likely not going to know that your previous job was that boring. And he/she does not need to. A job like you have can still be quite okay experience; the bottom line is that someone hired you, you made a living, and you got some experience. In fact, this may be a more valuable experience you believe now. In addition to reading HN you can study more new things, whatever interests you.

In the next interview, you can be honest and say that "I like to get more challenges, and I feel I can do more than what I have done". True and to the point.

One of my earlier jobs was such that I applied for an interesting job to work on SQL applications in Unix environment, at XYZ, the largest publishing house in the country; I did not get that job but they put me to a team that worked on a useless Christmas card address register using dBase IV on MS-DOS. Afterwards, what I could say was that "I worked on database solutions with XYZ company, and while I liked the working environment, I'm looking for some more challenging tasks". Got me into a job where I stayed for 20 years and 1 day.

[nashashmi]

I have hopped between three companies and two different industries. I think in majority of cases, I have been acknowledged to be incredibly talented both technically and practically. As for myself, I know I studied hard enough and solved some pretty difficult problems to be quite competent at whatever is thrown at me.

And similar to your case, I have also sought challenging work where I could be utilized 100%. But I have convinced myself that such environments don't exist. Why? Because there are two ways to tackle every problem: the simple but laborious way OR the complex but quicker way. How you perceive your work is up to you. You can see it as challenging and breaking new boundaries and work in similar manner to solve those challenges or you can see it as simple and boring and "ask for the solution to a similar problem."

For example, my first project had a highly revered boss who made me think that the project I was working on was significant and amazing. When he was assigned a second project, I was not going to come along, but the way he described it to other people made it seem the second project was just as challenging. In a turn of events, his assignment changed and I took on the assignment instead. I found it to be very simple and mundane. I learned at that point, the challenge in a project is the challenge you highlight and the challenge you CHOOSE to tackle.

Every project has challenges and every project has its ups and downs. How you perceive a project is up to you.

[mcross]

Others have already said this in one way or another, but I think it's worthwhile to add another voice.

I'd just stick with it and keep looking. Be honest with the places you interview with when they ask why you are looking after so short of a time - the job is not what it was represented to me and despite my trying I can't fix it; and as a recent college grad with student loans I can't afford to leave while I'm searching. There's no need to try to hide this on your resume - it's better to be honest and explain it than try to hide something. Employers are people too and they will understand that.

My biggest piece of advice is don't give your notice at your current place until you have a written offer in hand for a new position.

[valarauca1]

The lesson learned here is always ask questions in your interview. As the person being hired you should be just as engaged as the person interviewing you, because you are also interviewing them.

Learn everything you can about their company. People love to talk about themselves, and their companies. What they've built, what they're doing, how cool it is, and what challenges they've faced.

You can learn more in a 20 minute conservation then in 2 hours reading their website.

[please_help]

Thanks for the comment. I guess I could have been more inquisitive. The thing though is that I did ask what my daily responsibilities would be. I did ask about the ongoing projects.

All I was told about is the work done at the other locations without being told that there was a difference of course.

I tried to get to the bottom of things but apparently not hard enough.

[tboyd47]

Sorry to hear about what happened. I know the feeling.

My advice is just to float your resume out to recruiters and keep looking for other jobs, which you are already doing. If you can keep the job you have and still make it to interviews, don't quit.

Staying busy writing Java Swing applications isn't a black mark by any means. I think it would be harder to explain a period of unemployment than a period of underemployment.

My first dev job out of college was at a startup (not in SV), and there was only dev work for the first 2 years. After that, all responsibilities were taken on by the lead dev, and we juniors were left with no work at all. Nada, zip. The salary was just enough to live on, and no one was allowed any raises. I took on a QA role and the other junior just bided his time taking MOOCs. QA wasn't for me, but I did it for almost a whole year until I couldn't stand it anymore and quit. I actually planned on becoming a truck driver, because the starting salary was about $5-10k more than what I was making as a dev. But I sent my resume out one more time and ended up getting a great Rails job in another city through a recruiter. So I didn't actually do trucking.

[HelloNurse]

"I could omit ‎my current position from my resume but then I'll be forced to reveal it if I get an interviews during regular office hours."

You shouldn't be ashamed of your current job; it's well paid, it can be done well and professionally, and probably it can be more creative than you think.

[bmccormack]

Two things:

1) Being in debt sucks. Become incredibly passionate about the idea of never being in debt again. If you don't have a giant student loan weighing around your neck, you are far more free to pursue work that interests you. So what to do? Come up with a plan in your favorite evolution of Visicalc, complete with how much debt you're going to pay off each month so that you can put a date on the calendar about when you're going to be debt free. Even if you're doing soul-draining work, knowing that that work is getting you one step closer to being free from debt should help.

2) Your current situation isn't as bad as it seems. I work with a ton of devs for whom working at a cool startup was their first real job. Awesome for them! Also totally not in line with most people's reality. Most people start in some version of "the bottom," whether that be in terms of low salary or poor culture, and then they maneuver their way through a couple of jobs until they find work they really enjoy. If you are smart and get things done, you'll do this too.

So your interviewer lied to you, exposing a toxic part of the company culture. They'll probably lose you over it and you'll eventually end up in a place you prefer to work.

Just come up with a plan to get out of debt. That can move your career a lot closer to freedom than you may think.

[gwbas1c]

My first job out of school was a developer job, but for the first few months they asked me to do some general sciency stuff that had very little to do with software engineering.

Onboarding engineers into an ongoing software engineering project is a bit of an art; and choosing the right job is also a bit of an art.

Looking back, I wasted my time going on job interviews. My first job was actually better than I realized.

In my current job, a lot of "first projects" for incoming engineers are lame, but they expose the incoming engineers to our process, code base, and the internals of our product.

IMO, it's too early to leave your position. It would be different if you had a toxic boss; or toxic co-workers; or found out that your company made its profits by killing kittens. In this case, however, you just don't like your first project.

I'd explain to your manager that you understand that someone needs to do the grunt work, and then be assertive that you didn't sign up to write Java Swing applications. Don't threaten to quit, but make it very clear that you'd like to work on something else.

You might need to be the donkey with the carrot hanging from the stick for 3-9 months, but if your manager is good, he'll get the message.

[meo2]

"Looking back, I wasted my time going on job interviews. My first job was actually better than I realized."

this is worth considering, especially when you're just starting out. I had a similar experience to the OP and had a string of 3 jobs where each was worse (in terms of being a mess) than the one before. I still managed to learn a lot along the way and don't really regret any of it, but in retrospect the first place had their shit together.

[falcolas]

It might just be me, but it sounds like you have some pretty unrealistic expectations of what working a job is really like. Banging out crap work sucks, but it is work that needs to be done. And since shit rolls downhill, you're going to be the one to catch it no matter what company you work for.

I'm sorry, but it seems like you need a quick reality check - you're a CS graduate who isn't from an ivy league university, and you appear to have no experience developing in a professional setting. From my experience with similar employees, there's simply a lot about professional programming practices which you likely don't know about yet.

Without a proven track record, a responsible manager would be an idiot to immediately give you "challenging" and "interesting" work; work upon which the company likely stands or falls. You have to build up that track record and prove your trustworthiness and ability.

Thankfully, building a track record doesn't actually take that long (unless your manager is an idiot, but sadly, that's a learning experience you'll end up getting as well). The method is very simple: apply your skills and knowledge to the work that you are doing. Strive to leave the code base in better condition at the end of the day than it was when you started it. Challenge yourself to exceed the minimum. Do more with what you've been given.

In the worst case, you'll be in the same position next year as you are now, only with more money and some practical experience you can take to your next job. In the best case, your company will recognize your ability and start giving you the interesting work you are craving.

I've found that while Adam Savage works in an industry which bears little superficial resemblance to ours, there are a lot of parallels to your situation now which can be drawn from his talk at Makers Fair 2013:

http://youtu.be/Xx9oJ8_r__8

[c4b3r42]

You don't drop it. You grow up and make the best of what you have, until a new opportunity presents itself. Persistence is the key. I once got a job, by applying to the opportunity every day for a month, and they finally called me and were impressed at my persistence.

My Advice to you is two pronged: 1. Stay in the market and looking (always, never stop. If you find an incredible opportunity take it) 2. Do your job, your mundane, boring (boo hoo) job, and then you do more. Get yourself noticed by the other location. Get to know the management team at the other location, be it by email or phone calls. Offer to do stuff on your own time for them. Soon they will want you there. They will extend an offer to you. If you want it bad enough you will get it.

Welcome to the real world kid!

[ujjain]

There is no shame in leaving after only 2 months, if you're really not enjoying. I've just left a job where I had to do nothing, the last months of the year was horrible. After many months of free time, I really had no idea what to do, days were boring and long.

I would start interviewing as soon as possible. Don't worry about blowing the interview at Amazon, you can try again in 2 years. You'd do well to read the interview questions at glassdoor.com, they often ask the same questions (I interviewed there), but don't think that you should postpone it and spend the time learning. Just apply again in a year, it's not like you are a very capable learner when you're burned out.

[SebKba]

Try to get transferred to the job you applied for. I would be completely honest with the situation and see how they react. Can you get hold of the guy who gave the lecture?

If it doesn't work out I doubt that IT is a field in general where finding a job is that difficult.

[hnnewguy]

>The engineer from the startup went on and on about how each day there is a challenge and you learn so much.

The world of "startups" is filled to the brim with charlatans. "Everybody's killing it." Be skeptical; even the "good" companies aren't all they're made out to be.

That said, start lining something else up while you make a little money and learning what you can. No big deal. Here's some advice: people care way too much about their "career path". There are more important things in life. If you're smart and capable, jobs and money will always come easy. This will be a mere blip on your radar.

[jrochkind1]

I think you should start applying for jobs now.

I think you'll have a _better_ chance of getting the job you want _now_, fresh out of college, then after 2 years of working at a job you _don't_ want which qualifies you to work at other jobs like it.

And what do you have to lose, anyway? Don't quit your job yet, apply while you're still there.

I wouldn't stress too much about whether to include the current job on the resume. Maybe now only a month out of school, you could leave it off, it hardly looks like a gap. Or put it in, and be honest if people ask -- it was not the environment or the work you were led to believe it was in the hiring process. Anyone who doesn't want to hire you because of that -- are they someone you want to work for anyway?

Leave it on the resume or don't, and if whatever you do is awkward at one interview, do the other thing next time. (But even if you don't they might ask what you've been up to. Personally I'd find honesty and transparency less stressful than trying to talk around it, and if you're confident and comfortable you'll do better at interviews).

Figure out what to do differently to avoid being bamboozled next time. (Make sure you talk to your to-be manager and/or co-workers before you get hired? I don't _think_ it's unusual to want to meet and talk to your to-be manager before accepting a job!).

Don't count on getting the first job you apply for (you might not), or what you think is your dream job (it might not be), you're going to have to work at it. (As you didn't the first time, it just fell into your lap, and look what you ended up with!). In the meantime, you're making good money apparently (very generous offer?), so it could be a whole lot worse, that's life, sometimes things don't go as we'd like.

Most jobs are found through networking -- just like you found the job you have now. So start networking. If you live in a city with lots of programming jobs, there will be user groups or meetups, find them and go to them. And keep staying in touch with and spending social time with your former classmates who you get along with.

[zamalek]

Grind through the work and pay off your loans, as you indicated you did get a generous offer. One of the biggest challenges that you need to learn is how to slog through the boring stuff - it can't always be interesting: even when you work at interesting places.

It's a job, not a playground. Jobs can be cool, but you need to work on that.

> so burnt out from boredom and repetitive work that I can barely stay awake.

Boring work alone won't do that to you. There's something else here, are you working overtime?