"If I had been a man would it have mattered what I was wearing?"
Pretty obviously yes. One may think it's stupid but this company has a dress code and wants its employees to look put together period.
Also, based on her post I would say the company was pretty good at reading her personality. I have rarely seen someone who is yet to graduate but already has such deep feeling of entitlement. I guess her parents have told her her whole life how special and amazing she was, and she could do anything without trying. Welcome to the real world.
Male programmer denied job because of his 'unprofessional' attire
Or even:
Programmer denied job because of the 'unprofessional' attire
Or:
Person denied job because of the 'unprofessional' attire
I always try to remove any words that can bias the interpretation. Now I can read it as a person got denied a job, based on 'unprofessional' attire. Doesn't sound so patriarchal and oppressing, after all.
If the other programmers indeed do wear tshirts and jeans, as she reported, then I don't think it's accurate to say that the company has a dress code. Her attire is appropriate for a tshirt and jeans culture.
Thank you, I was about to say the same. I hate wearing suits, but I wear them for weddings and funerals and interviews because that is one of the clauses in the social contract.
I am a film producer. On a horror short in the woods [VHS 2: RIP segment] we had a PA (Production Assistant- the grunts of film) show up in a elegant black cocktail dress and some very expensive heels. She was smart, funny, and positively radiant. We had her sit around in the office until we wrapped and did not ask her back. It had everything to do with her attire and nothing to do with her gender. I will point out that when I asked her about her clothing choice (as the AD that was completely within my purview) she said, "I thought I would be working with the Director." Ridiculous.
I hate it that in this day and age people would still be passed on a job they are qualified for and willing to do because of the way they chose to dress or ornaments they chose to use.
Having said this, the article is rage-bait. Remove the "female" from the title and it's just another Tuesday. Getting a job is hard for everyone.
Judging a candidate by looks alone may seem like a shallow thing. But the profane FB rant demonstrates a definite lack of professional composure. The company dodged a problematic hire. I'm afraid this poor decision will haunt her.
When has a company ever described the reasons for not hiring you in such detail? I've been rejected like 50 times and not once was a reason given other than "we're searching for a candidate of another profile". Which I guess is a great way to avoid discrimination lawsuits. If this article is true, OnShift has the dumbest recruiters ever and I hope they get what's coming for them.
"These are the reasons she cited: 1) I 'looked more like I was about to go clubbing than to an interview.' 2) I 'had a huge run in my tights' 3) I was late."
I'm going to make a giant leap of faith here and suggest that the person who denied her the job was probably a female.
I simply cannot envision a guy telling a girl he wasn't going to hire her because of a run in her tights.
Business casual is defined constructively for males and existentially for females. Examples of how to dress business casual for men and women clearly show this.[1]
Scrolling through the results of an image search for "women's business casual" vs "men's business casual" also highlight a stark difference.
This leads to unconscious bias against women. It isn't that we don't want to hire you, it's that we felt like you made a dress Faux pas that a male is never given the opportunity to make. Your skirt was slightly too high and also red, the top slightly too low cut, you wore slightly too much makeup, and even though you paired the skirt with leggings, we just felt you don't "understand" business dress.
>This person does seem rather entitled as well as naive. I think her post was used to continue the "fight against patriarchy" and, much like the Rolling Stone article about UVA, is rather counterproductive.
>I do feel for women in the workplace, in any vocation, in terms of dress. It is an unfair standard and attention, impolite and otherwise, is completely unavoidable. It is a tricky situation: I believe in freedom of choice, but i know fighting biology is futile. There must be some middle ground between the burkah and the bikini...
It's basically the same as a man's suit, except that you may swap out the trousers ("pants") for a matching skirt, and no tie. As such, the blouse typically leaves the top button undone.
Interview in highly professional clothes. I'm a software engineer but I wear collar with matching pants and jacket (no tie) to interview. Work pants, hoodie+As hat once I demonstrate my value. One must bring A-game to the first meeting.
There's nothing wrong with that attire. In fact, it's not worth commenting on further. The interviewers have a poor understanding of the state of the industry, if that was the actual reasoning (which is doubtful).
its considered acceptable for a candidate when called for an interview to ask about the required dress code. I did this many times and worked well.
You don't know who will be present at the interview, e.g. it could be upper management and therefore you should dress accordingly. Asking beforehand also helps make sure you don't overdress which could make you feel uncomfortable during the interview and have a negative impact.
To boil down why her clothing was considered "unprofessional", it should be safe to say that clothing that reveals the pectoralis major muscle is not considered professional.
I think the recruiters second two comments were the most valid. Being late and having a run in your stockings seems to show a lack of caring and professionalism.
The comment about "looking like she was ready to go out" was, in my opinion just a poor way of saying that she was too casual. I understand that the company may have a casual dress code, but it sounds like her appearance was "unprofessional" and not "overtly sexy". I would imagine that a guy showing up in a tattered suit would have gotten a similarly poor response.
[+] [-] dudul|11 years ago|reply
Pretty obviously yes. One may think it's stupid but this company has a dress code and wants its employees to look put together period.
Also, based on her post I would say the company was pretty good at reading her personality. I have rarely seen someone who is yet to graduate but already has such deep feeling of entitlement. I guess her parents have told her her whole life how special and amazing she was, and she could do anything without trying. Welcome to the real world.
[+] [-] thecopy|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] scott_s|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thret|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] classicsnoot|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ukigumo|11 years ago|reply
Having said this, the article is rage-bait. Remove the "female" from the title and it's just another Tuesday. Getting a job is hard for everyone.
[+] [-] 0xdeadbeefbabe|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JSeymourATL|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] billpg|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cpncrunch|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Grue3|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] runamok|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] omonra|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] swamp40|11 years ago|reply
I'm going to make a giant leap of faith here and suggest that the person who denied her the job was probably a female.
I simply cannot envision a guy telling a girl he wasn't going to hire her because of a run in her tights.
[+] [-] DiabloD3|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jrock08|11 years ago|reply
Scrolling through the results of an image search for "women's business casual" vs "men's business casual" also highlight a stark difference.
This leads to unconscious bias against women. It isn't that we don't want to hire you, it's that we felt like you made a dress Faux pas that a male is never given the opportunity to make. Your skirt was slightly too high and also red, the top slightly too low cut, you wore slightly too much makeup, and even though you paired the skirt with leggings, we just felt you don't "understand" business dress.
[1] http://www.wikihow.com/Dress-Business-Casual
[+] [-] scott_s|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] classicsnoot|11 years ago|reply
>This person does seem rather entitled as well as naive. I think her post was used to continue the "fight against patriarchy" and, much like the Rolling Stone article about UVA, is rather counterproductive.
>I do feel for women in the workplace, in any vocation, in terms of dress. It is an unfair standard and attention, impolite and otherwise, is completely unavoidable. It is a tricky situation: I believe in freedom of choice, but i know fighting biology is futile. There must be some middle ground between the burkah and the bikini...
[+] [-] jrock08|11 years ago|reply
Yeah there must be some sort of middle ground, like a skirt and leggings, and a blouse.
[+] [-] gregor7777|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] EliRivers|11 years ago|reply
It's basically the same as a man's suit, except that you may swap out the trousers ("pants") for a matching skirt, and no tie. As such, the blouse typically leaves the top button undone.
[+] [-] aidenn0|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jolan|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] edoceo|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jack9|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kyriakos|11 years ago|reply
You don't know who will be present at the interview, e.g. it could be upper management and therefore you should dress accordingly. Asking beforehand also helps make sure you don't overdress which could make you feel uncomfortable during the interview and have a negative impact.
[+] [-] jrs235|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jklein11|11 years ago|reply
The comment about "looking like she was ready to go out" was, in my opinion just a poor way of saying that she was too casual. I understand that the company may have a casual dress code, but it sounds like her appearance was "unprofessional" and not "overtly sexy". I would imagine that a guy showing up in a tattered suit would have gotten a similarly poor response.
[+] [-] swamp40|11 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cpncrunch|11 years ago|reply